Make Your Death as Meaningful as Your Life (Part 2 of 2 with Seth Viddal)
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Summary
In recent years, conversations about end-of-life practices have evolved far beyond conventional perceptions of funerals. As societal attitudes shift, a wealth of creative, connected, and eco-conscious options have emerged for individuals considering how they wish to be memorialized. This exploration was brought to the forefront in a recent episode of the LightAtTheEnd.com Podcast, where host Kevin Berk engaged in a meaningful dialogue with Seth Viddal, co-owner and COO of The Natural Funeral.
Reimagining Memorialization
The discussion begins with a look at innovative approaches that are not yet mainstream but spark curiosity and offer deep personalization. One such concept is the “mushroom suit,” a shroud embedded with fungal spores to facilitate natural decomposition—a notion not adopted by every green burial but respected for its symbolism.
Seth Viddal elaborated on products that offer alternative options for remembering loved ones, from memorial stones to the transformative process of turning cremated remains into diamonds, glass, or pottery. Artists like Alli Suter encapsulate ashes into oil paintings, providing a uniquely intimate keepsake.
The Role of Death Doulas and Holistic Support
Another profound aspect of this journey is the support families can receive from death doulas and midwives. These professionals offer non-medical, emotional, and spiritual assistance, helping families navigate the end-of-life process holistically. The Natural Funeral’s commitment to community-driven services empowers families to align ceremonies with their values, fostering a supportive network through grief counselors and chaplains.
Legality and Logistics of Human Composting
The legality of human composting, or terramation, currently spans 12 U.S. states, though operational facilities are limited. Seth explained that his organization is expanding its network to include new locations like Phoenix and Minneapolis. The conversation addressed the logistics of out-of-state transport for desired services, illustrating the dedication of individuals who wish to make environmentally conscious decisions about their final journey.
Conventional Burial Vs. New Methods: Pros, Cons, and Costs
For those weighing options, transparency about costs is crucial. Conventional flame cremation, while widely available and low-cost, poses environmental challenges. In contrast, methods like water cremation and terramation, despite being less widely available, offer significantly reduced environmental impacts.
Water cremation, known for its efficiency and eco-friendliness, is accessible in fewer states, while terramation is praised for its natural return to the earth. Green burial offers a traditional yet environmentally friendly choice, determined by one’s personal values and financial considerations regarding burial plots and materials.
An Evolving Perspective
The dialogue concludes with reflections on the significance of choice in end-of-life planning. What once seemed daunting is now an opportunity for individual expression and environmental mindfulness. Kevin Berk notes the shift from fear to fascination, as more people embrace the notion of crafting a farewell that resonates with their life’s ethos.
As global conversations around mortality evolve, this podcast reminds us that our final farewell need not conform to tradition but can be a reflection of personal values, creativity, and a commitment to nurturing the planet.
In embracing our mortality, we also embrace the possibility for transformation—both personally and collectively—for a more conscious and connected world.
FULL TRANSCRIPTION:
Ep. 6, pt 2: Honoring Life Naturally: Beyond Conventional Funeral Practices (Feb 12, 2025)
Introduction to the Podcast
Kevin Berk: Welcome back to the LightAtTheEnd.com Podcast. LightAtTheEnd.com is a resource for those who want to learn more about end of life topics, but don’t know where to start. I’m Kevin Berk, and I’m joined again by Seth Viddal, co-owner and COO of The Natural Funeral.
This is part two of a two part discussion that we’re having on planning creative, connected, deeply meaningful, and eco-conscious goodbyes and memorializations for ourselves and our loved ones.
Seth, welcome back, and I’m so glad to have you here for a second half to this conversation.
Seth Viddal: Kevin. It’s great to be back.
Innovative Memorial Options
Kevin Berk: Thank you so much, Seth.So Where we left off last time was, we were talking about Parting Stone and the Memorial Stone option. You mentioned that there’s just a lot of innovative stuff that may not be ready for prime time that you’ve been hearing about. Are there any of those that are interesting that people should really be considering?
Seth Viddal: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, Kevin, because some of those are considerations on the front side of our disposition, like a mushroom suit would be something we would shroud our body in as a symbolic gesture where bringing those spores and that mycelium network to help in the return of our body to the earth.
I’ll share with you, we don’t use those in our green burials. We choose to use just a natural cloth. We wouldn’t be opposed to those because they would obviously decompose fine. But in agreen burial, we don’t actually emphasize a speed of the decomposition of the body or the return of the elements of the body back to being bioavailable.
We honor the natural aspects of that process, and because the body is going to remain in situ permanently, there’s not really a need to accelerate that. It’s always going to be in that location. I will share with you that as a part of our terramation process, we do inoculate the vessel with, with fungal spores.
So I’m a big believer in their place as helping with decay in the cycle of life. But from a product perspective, We don’t kind of sell or encourage the need for that. We kind of look at them as like the big foam finger at the sporting event where you, you might feel like feel good about your gesture of support, but in reality, you’re not impacting the outcome of the game.
Natural Death Care Products
Seth Viddal: To speak to other products though, certainly in natural death care, there are willow carriers that are options that people can choose instead of a casket, and there are lots of natural products that people can work with. Of course, essential oils instead of embalming fluids would be another natural approach.
And then things do get interesting on the other side of death care, going back to Parting Stones where people take the cremated remains, the remains that they get back and, and memorialize those in, in some thing that they’re going to interact with in their, in their coming days. And I think your audience might agree, interacting with ash cremated remains is tricky, but 26 percent of households have cremated remains in them.
And so it’s a common consideration. Parting Stones have been a cool introduction on the scene because people put them in their pockets and do all kinds of things as we talked about.
But, other options are diamonds where actually cremated remains can be compressed and put into a diamond form. And there’s a a partner of ours called Eternova that offers that service.
And then there are local artists that we work with who blow glass pieces that contain ash or cremated remains from a fire cremation or water cremation or terramation.
We have local potters that use the regenerative living soil that our bodies become. And so some families might, return some of that soil to nature and some might use some of that earth to actually create a vessel that their family is going to use that’s made from their body.
And then maybe the last piece I’d love to share about, there’s a local Boulder [Colorado] artist that we work with who does oil painting, and she in embeds cremated remains in the oil paint. And then creates an inspired image and she’ll co-create those with the family, so that the family has input and really the life of the person being included in the painting has input, and that artist’s name is Alli Suter and she just does beautiful work.
But yeah, those are some things, Kevin, that people choose to do.
Kevin Berk: Thank you for explaining that. I mean, it makes the decision even harder because some of these are such appealing things to do and to think about doing them personally or for your loved ones. At some point you’ve got to make a choice, but it’s amazing that there are so many artisans who are doing such creative, amazing things that can really speak to people abouthow want to remember or keep their loved ones around.
Seth Viddal: It really is special and it’s really independent to each of us, right? And, and it’s kind of cool that to some people, a jewelry piece might be the most fitting way to keep their loved one close. And we have one family that had a set of coffee mugs made from the earthenware from the body of their person that they were fired and glazed, and they’re beautiful. And every morning this, this wife drinks coffee with her husband.
Kevin Berk: That is so cool. Oh my gosh. Amazing.
Working with Death Doulas
Kevin Berk: You also through TheNaturalFuneral.com work with death doulas death midwives to help people on either end of losing people’s… people’s loved ones, right?
Seth Viddal: We do, we do. It’s important to us. One of our founding principles is a united community and empowering families to look at the end of life or a funeral service or this season holistically and and find a way to curate services aligned with people’s values. And so death doulas are something that are very supportive in that, as people maybe have received a prognosis or they’re coming to terms with a terminal illness, sometimes sudden, sometimes gradually, but doulas help in of course, a non medical more, emotional, spiritual family unit support way. And so we absolutely advocate for, for the inclusion of a doula in a family’s end of life process, if that’s within their reach,
But holistically, we have, grief counselors that, that we work really closely with, we have a non denominational chaplain who is a part of our staff and we, we offer, support services, before, during, and after the funeral with a family. And our goal there is not to be a long term resource, but more of an acute connector that’s dealing with this moment of grief and then helping that family find the right connections for ongoing therapy, which may may help in in their grief process.
It’s really just been responding to the questions from the family. And when we get enough requests for, you know, maybe a grief group following the loss of a child, we assemble one and we bring in a resource that can connect our community. So, I’ll humbly give thanks to the people who come and are brave enough to ask for what they need.
Kevin Berk: Yeah.
Legalities of Human Composting
Kevin Berk: We talked a lot about human composting, terramation. I wanted to understand a little bit more because it seems like right now, human composting is legal in 12 states. It’s Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Nevada, New York, Oregon and Vermont, and then it’s been introduced in 13 others.
I think one of the things, Seth, that I’m trying to get at is, anybody who’s watching or listening and interested in these things, they may not know whether or not they’re available,
to, um, figure out whether or not what they want is something that is 1) offered in their state or 2) whether it is legal to come to you from out of state and there’s a way to bring back those remains over state lines.
Seth Viddal: Thanks for for helping hone that question. So, as you mentioned, terramation is legal in 12 states, but there are actually operators performing the function in 3 states. So, Washington, Colorado, and Nevada. And specifically the Seattle metro area, the Denver metro area, and the Las Vegas metro areas all have terramation operators. And they range in capacity from 20 or so vessels in a metro to 150 or so vessels in a metro, from multiple providers. But those are currently really the only places that people can access terramation.
What I’ll share with you is that some of the providers of natural organic reduction would suggest that a family would fly their loved one to them for the terramation process, and then the family could receive back all or a token of the soil. And we’ve sort of taken a counter perspective to that where we’re trying to empower funeral homes and cemeteries and crematories to provide this. And so what that’s going to lead to is a growing set of providers, and Kevin, I’ll share with you, we’re already building, out a network that’s going to be deployed in April in Arizona, in the Phoenix market space, and we’re in an early design on a Minneapolis St. Paul deployment that’ll be a largesupport for terramation in that geo, and then there are a couple of other… one in the Northeast, and one in the Pacific Northwest, where we’re working for other operators to open facilities. It would be naive of us to think that there aren’t other innovators who are concurrently working on plans to open new facilities.
So some of it is a matter of the technology getting to the state where legislation has passed. Some of it is waiting for regulations to be written once legislation has passed. California is a good example there, where terramation or natural organic reduction became legislatively available in 2022 and the regulators said, “wait a second, we’ll have the regulations ready on January 1st of 2027”, giving themselves a five year window from the passage of the law until the implementation of the first provider.
But we’ve already been in conversations with California Department of Public Health about systems that will be installed and deployed early in 2027. So what we’re seeing is 13 states, as you mentioned, that have proposed legislation and will be considered sometime in this legislative session. And some of those will pass, and some of them will punt to next year, and more states will introduce along the way. But the trend line that we’re seeing shows that four states passed new legislation last year, and likely six or eight will pass new legislation this year. And likely eight or twelve will pass new legislation next year.
And so the, the up into the right ramp on this is, is really significant.
And it’s a technology that was illegal everywhere in the country five years ago. And, and, and so that really is a quick adoption, if you will, in an ancient industry.
Kevin Berk: Yeah, it seems like it. Yeah, it seems like it.
Seth Viddal: Okay Yeah, it is! Social media and the interest of the youth and… really, the impact environmentally that this option makes when compared to other options. It really makes a statement, about efficacy of an environmental return of our body.
Water Cremation Explained
Seth Viddal: And then I’ll shift to water cremation, which, it would be important for your, your viewers, you’d want to search for water cremation or alkaline hydrolysis, if that’s the service you’re looking for.
And that’s legal in 28 states. With a few additional states that will consider new legislation this year, but of those 20 States, only about half of them have operators. And so it really is a sluggish industry that is slowly, embracing these new technologies.
And from the consumer side, the want is much faster, I think, than operators are able to open new facilities, which leads to the dynamic, Kevin, you shared about people coming from other States, So operating from a place of curiosity and, being wildly in favor of supporting the clients’ requests. I found it interesting when someone shared, as an environmentalist, “I’d like to fly my body from New Jersey to Colorado when I die.” And I thought, “well, gosh, most people wouldn’t think a plane ride like that as an act of of environmental consciousness.” But this person viewed that action as activism, and as a proponent of awareness. And he said, “if I don’t do this, who’s going to do it, if I don’t make New Jersey,New Jerseyans and so aware that, I’m so in favor of this and I’ve researched it and I know it’s right for me, that I’m willing to get on an existing commercial flight, not a charter flight, but I’ll get on an existing flight that was already going to go from New Jersey to Colorado.
And it’s that important to me to make the statement.”
And I felt it in this call with this person from New Jersey. And since then, Kevin, of the 175 or so terramations we’ve done, approaching a quarter of those have come from outside of Colorado, from folks where they can’t get this, but they want it.
And the farthest that we’ve had someone come from is actually Indonesia and a requirement for terramation is that the body be unenbalmed, And so all of the shipments of these decedents we’ve orchestrated in a natural way.
And I’ll share with your audience that it is legal to send a body across state lines, across 49 state lines, you can send an unembalmed body, with the one exception being the state of Alabama, which does not allow an unembalmed body to enter or leave the state.
Kevin Berk: Seth, thank you for all of that informtaion, that’s so good to understand the legality and the options that are available. It gives people a lot to consider and research on their own to figure out whether their state is going to allow for the thing they want to do.
So, in our remaining time that we have together, I would love to get into what you see as the, and this is a big ask. I know.
Comparing Burial Options: The Pros, Cons, and Costs
Kevin Berk: Pros, Cons, and Costs, between conventional burial, green burial flame cremation.
Seth Viddal: Yeah, Kevin, I’d love to get into that and we’re really transparent with this. Everything I’m about to tell you is publicly available on our website. and I encourage any, funeral home, please do your customers that favor of, of allowing them the gift of being able to research you and find out some preliminary information before they have to pick up that 500 pound phone and make a difficult call.
I also want to encourage folks to connect with a group called a Funeral Consumer Society. Most states have a Colorado Funeral Consumer Society or New Jersey Funeral Consumer Society and those are the groups that take the voice of the public and amplify it to legislators.
And so if you have a want for empowering your community to have access to something, you don’t have to be dying. And in fact, it’s helpful if, if you’re not, and you can participate in this campaign. We need voices and we need advocates out there, and I know your audience, Kevin, would, would be the right kind of hearts and hands to hear that request and, and bring what they need to their communities.
So, so when we talk about like the, the pros and the cons,and the costs of each option, I’ll share with you that, I’m going to give you our retail prices and our prices tend to be on the full service end of the spectrum. We have brick and mortar facilities, and we have licensed directors and we have staff vehicles, and onsite body cooling and beautiful facilities. And our goal is not to be the cheapest of any option in the area, our goal is to meet each family eye level right at their needs.
I’ll share with you cremation, sometimes you can get them for as cheap as a thousand dollars or so in your town. And that’s typically going to involve, maybe not much interaction with the funeral home, but more of like a transport service and maybe help with registering the death with the state and then return of cremated remains generally by mail.
And of course, we involve families and we, pick up, loved ones and, you know, leave flowers with their, family as, a touch point to them as we bring them into our care and shelter for the, the process.
The cons of flame cremation are that it’s also pretty consumptive and it also pollutes. It’s not uncommon for, you know, whole caskets to be cremated or, leather shoes or or rubber soled shoes or, even metals that are that are in our bodies. and so that generally goes through scrubbers, but ultimately it’s going to go out a chimney. Our body is going to convert from solid and liquid to gas and by definition, that’s pollution. And so, that that’s a con. The Pro to flame cremation is it’s available almost anywhere. Everybody’s heard of it. And it’s almost always going to be the lowest cost.
Where water cremation in, in our model is $4,400 and the pro to that is that the environmental impacts are dramatically different from flame cremation. There’s still a production cost, a carbon impact to the production of the chemicals that are used in alkaline hydrolysis, but because there’s no emissions, and because we don’t use natural gas, we use a very small amount of electricity for, movement in our vessel, so it’s very energy efficient, it causes no pollution, and the essence of our body can be captured and reapplied to the earth and given to plants as a biostimulant. So that’s very much a Pro that people find with water cremation. A Con is it can cost a little bit more, and it’s not as accessible. It’s just not as available state to state as flame cremation.
And then, terramation I’ll talk about next. And we just shared about how that’s the least available option. Its cost is $8,900 dollars. And that’s because it’s a biologically managed process that’s going to take two to a little over two months timeframe with almost daily interaction from a certified natural reductionist, and so the labor intensity is, is higher in this process. The duration is much longer. The cost is higher. But by far, the environmental impact is the most advantageous. And what I mean by that, Kevin, is that in the process of natural organic reduction, we don’t produce carbon emissions, we actually sequester 1, 003 pounds of carbon for every process that we conduct. And so, that is why people from far and wide are, are tending to resonate with this.
Terramation, people perceive as slower, gentler, more gradual and really relatable, because we’ve all had a yard with maybe the deciduous leaves that fell and they, they rested in our yard in autumn. And then in the spring, they had become humus and, were beginning to break down and we’re a part of the soil level and we might’ve even seen a ladybug crawl across the leaf and we can envision, okay, that’s what’s happening in terramation. It’s no different than that leaf that left that tree that that ladybug found refuge on. And, and so there’s, there’s a perception that I know exactly where I’m going in the cycle of life when I choose this process.
And then the last option that I’ll touch on with you is green burial. And, and we don’t really offer what I would consider conventional burial or traditional burial with a big casket in a vault and embalming. Our transport cars tend to be EVs and minivans and less hearses and limousines. and so our burials tend to be natural and green and use shrouds and hand lowering and, and less, uh…
Kevin Berk: Equipment?
Seth Viddal: …and equipment. That’s right. That’s right. And so our green burial,service is $4,400 plus the plot. And I say “plus the plot” because there are plots for $1,000 and there are plots for $50,000. And so there’s an enormous range that people can select. And then and then the only other additional cost to a green burial would be the natural material that folks are going to be buried in. And of course, we have shrouds that are silk and bamboos and hemps and woven and they’re gorgeous. And sometimes people say, this was my favorite blanket and this is what I want to be wrapped in. And we’ve had people who’ve crocheted their own shrouds that we’ve eventually wrapped them in. So what your body is buried in can be as expensive as free if you so choose.
Personal Reflections on End-of-Life Choices
Kevin Berk: Seth, I keep thinking about the fellow that you mentioned who is prepared to have his body flown across state lines so that he could get the method of final disposition that really spoke to him.
And, I really hope we get to a place soon where it doesn’t require that level of travel and it doesn’t require that extra stress and these things are available to each of us in every state because there’s benefits to all the things that we’ve talked about from green burial to alkaline hydrolysis to terramation that it really has given us a lot to ponder and talk about with our loved ones about what we want for ourselves and what they want for themselves.
Seth Viddal: Kevin, you’ve done a really fun job in this interview of threading together some really important factors that people need to – and maybe they’re just learning through your podcast – that they even could or should have self-determination about what’s going to eventually happen with their body. And some people find peace in that, some people find closure in that, some people find joy in that. And so I think the topics that we’ve considered, like the spectrum of care leading up to one’s passing, the support that you can have and the ways that your community can hold you through that journey, the things that people can choose to do with the remains that they receive back are so personal and unique. How they choose to give their body back to the earth through burial or through one of these other more rapidly transformative methods.
The way that they choose to hold that in a stone, or scatter that as ashes, or have it made into jewelry that rests at their heart, is so deeply personal. And Kevin, it’s been one of my favorite parts of our conversation is the holistic consideration. And so, I think that the angles with which you’re, you’re challenging your audience to consider: what do I want to happen before I die? Who do I want to be around me in my final moments, if I’m able to have agency in that? Where do I want my passing to occur? What do I want to happen after my passing occurs? How do I want my community to come together? How do I want my body to be handled naturally at home or, or by professionals somewhere, and, and not with a, there’s not a right or wrong answer.
These are just deeply personal. Then one, what’s gonna happen to my body? will it, will I be soil? Will I be cremated remains? And, and then who’s gonna do something with those remains? And, yeah, I think it’s really sweet for folks to really open their minds up to what’s possible. So thanks for the way you framed this.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Kevin Berk: Yeah, and I so appreciate you, I can’t thank you enough for all of the knowledge and humanity that you’ve brought to the conversation. It’s endlessly fascinating to me. It’s a subject that was, for a long time really scary to me. It’s probably still scary to a lot of people, but when you hear and explore some of these alternatives, they really become almost a creative expression of how you want your time on this earth to end or even continue on in some fashion. And so, I think it’s really turned a corner for me personally from being something that’s morbid or scary into something that’s, dare I say, exciting, and creative, and appealing. I know that probably sounds strange but I would hazard a guess that I’m not the only person who thinks that this stuff is very cool, and and very progressive.
Seth Viddal: Thanks for that reflection, Kevin.
I think you’re right that we’re at a tipping point right now in our humanity and the way that we choose to bravely look our mortality in the eye. And I think that there are a wave of educators and doulas and funeral providers and podcast hosts and community that are helping us to bravely, collectively look at that light and see what’s possible and see how we can make shifts at a personal level in our community and in a global level environmentally. And, what a fascinating time this is to be a funeral consumer, to be death positive, to be curious about these things.
And so, gosh, Kevin, this has been a blast. And I, I thank you from the bottom of my heart and I encourage your audience to keep a song in their heart.
Kevin Berk: Well, I look forward to talking to you in the future, Seth. It’s been a wonderful conversation together and a wonderful exploration of important topics and we’ve covered a lot, so thank you, thank you, thank you!
Seth Viddal: Thank you, Kevin.
End of part two